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	<title>Comments on: Heidegger and Mormonism: A Possible Literary Aesthetic</title>
	<link>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/03/04/heidegger-and-mormonism-a-possible-literary-aesthetic/</link>
	<description>Critical Conversations to Redeem and Perfect Mormon Arts</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 14:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Carter Frederick</title>
		<link>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/03/04/heidegger-and-mormonism-a-possible-literary-aesthetic/#comment-174</link>
		<dc:creator>Carter Frederick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 00:03:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/03/04/heidegger-and-mormonism-a-possible-literary-aesthetic/#comment-174</guid>
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		<title>By: Heidegger and Mormonism: A Possible Literary Aesthetic : Mormon Metaphysics</title>
		<link>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/03/04/heidegger-and-mormonism-a-possible-literary-aesthetic/#comment-118</link>
		<dc:creator>Heidegger and Mormonism: A Possible Literary Aesthetic : Mormon Metaphysics</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 01:23:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/03/04/heidegger-and-mormonism-a-possible-literary-aesthetic/#comment-118</guid>
		<description>[...] Over at a new LDS blog, Mormon Renaissance, there&#8217;s a post called &#8220;Heidegger and Mormonism: A Possible Lterary Aesthetic&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Over at a new LDS blog, Mormon Renaissance, there&#8217;s a post called &#8220;Heidegger and Mormonism: A Possible Lterary Aesthetic&#8221; [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: onelowerlight</title>
		<link>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/03/04/heidegger-and-mormonism-a-possible-literary-aesthetic/#comment-87</link>
		<dc:creator>onelowerlight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 01:10:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/03/04/heidegger-and-mormonism-a-possible-literary-aesthetic/#comment-87</guid>
		<description>The Mormon art that's affected me the most in an experiential way would have to be the science fiction and fantasy of writers like Orson Scott Card and Brandon Sanderson.  I agree with Doc that speculative fiction really does lend itself towards the LDS worldview in this way.  

I think that one of the reasons for this is that sf/f tends to be much more character based than any other form of literature.  In Sanderson's Mistborn, the thing that affected me the most was Vin's transformation from an abused street urchin to a person with strengths, abilities, friends, loved ones, and a sense of purpose in her life.  In Card's Ender's Game series, the way that Ender saw the world and the way he struggled with the knowledge that he'd killed off an entire race of sentient beings deeply affected the way that I see others--and myself.  In both of these cases, the emphasis on character and character growth makes the art seem much more real, much more meaningful, and much less preachy and pretentious.

In a similar way, the endowment ceremony in the temple can also be thought of as primarily character based, and focusing on character growth and development.  The principles and ordinances contained in the ceremony don't happen in a vacuum, or happen for their own sake, but are all tied in to Adam and Eve and their experience.  

The gospel is nothing without someone to grow in it--eternal progression is an empty concept without the one who experiences the progression.  Therefore, if we want to draw out that experience, one way we could do it well is to create deep, believable, honest characters and focus on their personal growth.  This is why I think that LDS writers do so well in the genres of sci fi and fantasy--these are some of the two most character based genres in literature right now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Mormon art that&#8217;s affected me the most in an experiential way would have to be the science fiction and fantasy of writers like Orson Scott Card and Brandon Sanderson.  I agree with Doc that speculative fiction really does lend itself towards the LDS worldview in this way.  </p>
<p>I think that one of the reasons for this is that sf/f tends to be much more character based than any other form of literature.  In Sanderson&#8217;s Mistborn, the thing that affected me the most was Vin&#8217;s transformation from an abused street urchin to a person with strengths, abilities, friends, loved ones, and a sense of purpose in her life.  In Card&#8217;s Ender&#8217;s Game series, the way that Ender saw the world and the way he struggled with the knowledge that he&#8217;d killed off an entire race of sentient beings deeply affected the way that I see others&#8211;and myself.  In both of these cases, the emphasis on character and character growth makes the art seem much more real, much more meaningful, and much less preachy and pretentious.</p>
<p>In a similar way, the endowment ceremony in the temple can also be thought of as primarily character based, and focusing on character growth and development.  The principles and ordinances contained in the ceremony don&#8217;t happen in a vacuum, or happen for their own sake, but are all tied in to Adam and Eve and their experience.  </p>
<p>The gospel is nothing without someone to grow in it&#8211;eternal progression is an empty concept without the one who experiences the progression.  Therefore, if we want to draw out that experience, one way we could do it well is to create deep, believable, honest characters and focus on their personal growth.  This is why I think that LDS writers do so well in the genres of sci fi and fantasy&#8211;these are some of the two most character based genres in literature right now.</p>
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		<title>By: Liz Busby</title>
		<link>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/03/04/heidegger-and-mormonism-a-possible-literary-aesthetic/#comment-84</link>
		<dc:creator>Liz Busby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:13:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/03/04/heidegger-and-mormonism-a-possible-literary-aesthetic/#comment-84</guid>
		<description>green mormon architect: I totally agree with you about the need for thresholds in the temple.  I am perennially wishing I lived closer to the SLC temple, both because  of the multiple rooms aspect (lacking in the Provo Temple) and because of the live performance, which I think is so much more experiential than the filmed version.

In fact, I think the temple is a sort of ultimate form of experiential art.  There's lots of rich symbolism with very little interpretation built in.  It's art you have to figure out for yourself, art with no singular meaning but multiple and flexible meanings.  As I said in the post, I think creating similar effect in our literature, drama, etc. would allow us to avoid the didactism so often found in Mormon art, mainstream or otherwise.

Gideon:  You had me up until art became focused on creating spiritual experiences.  Of course that's one way that art can function (and I'm suggesting a way we could perhaps do that better), but even art that doesn't focus on "spiritual" experience (as we define it in church) can still be experiential.  I think the contrast is between focusing on the meaning of the art vs. the experience thereof which creates meaning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>green mormon architect: I totally agree with you about the need for thresholds in the temple.  I am perennially wishing I lived closer to the SLC temple, both because  of the multiple rooms aspect (lacking in the Provo Temple) and because of the live performance, which I think is so much more experiential than the filmed version.</p>
<p>In fact, I think the temple is a sort of ultimate form of experiential art.  There&#8217;s lots of rich symbolism with very little interpretation built in.  It&#8217;s art you have to figure out for yourself, art with no singular meaning but multiple and flexible meanings.  As I said in the post, I think creating similar effect in our literature, drama, etc. would allow us to avoid the didactism so often found in Mormon art, mainstream or otherwise.</p>
<p>Gideon:  You had me up until art became focused on creating spiritual experiences.  Of course that&#8217;s one way that art can function (and I&#8217;m suggesting a way we could perhaps do that better), but even art that doesn&#8217;t focus on &#8220;spiritual&#8221; experience (as we define it in church) can still be experiential.  I think the contrast is between focusing on the meaning of the art vs. the experience thereof which creates meaning.</p>
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		<title>By: green mormon architect</title>
		<link>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/03/04/heidegger-and-mormonism-a-possible-literary-aesthetic/#comment-83</link>
		<dc:creator>green mormon architect</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 05:55:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/03/04/heidegger-and-mormonism-a-possible-literary-aesthetic/#comment-83</guid>
		<description>"What Mormon art has touched you in an experiential way?"

For me the most touching Mormon experience is that of movement in Temple worship.  Our experience from room to room, representing eternal progression, allows new spiritual realities and new understandings that can occur from such things as materials chosen or new and varying proportions of space.  The act of standing up, waiting, and entering another realm of existence provides a space of learning and ritual that is as important as the ritual itself.  This crossing of the threshold into a new and more sacred space aids in spiritual clarity and heightens both experience and awareness.  These thresholds provide opportunities for progression from the profane to the sacred, beginning with the exterior door, and ending at the veil.

The original concept for the Mesa and Alberta Temples beautifully combined this movement, space, and material selection with the symbolism of progression.  For Mesa, you moved along an axis towards the Celestial room, always returning to the axis and moving upwards until the goal was reached.  In Alberta, you circled the building, from quadrant to quadrant, always upward, until you reached the Celestial room in the center. As you progressed, the wood finishes in each room became darker and richer, interestingly the opposite of the white experienced in most Celestial rooms today.

Removing these thresholds lessens the experience of purposeful progression.  Fortunately, the move recently with smaller temples has been to add at least one of these actual thresholds of movement back into the ceremony.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;What Mormon art has touched you in an experiential way?&#8221;</p>
<p>For me the most touching Mormon experience is that of movement in Temple worship.  Our experience from room to room, representing eternal progression, allows new spiritual realities and new understandings that can occur from such things as materials chosen or new and varying proportions of space.  The act of standing up, waiting, and entering another realm of existence provides a space of learning and ritual that is as important as the ritual itself.  This crossing of the threshold into a new and more sacred space aids in spiritual clarity and heightens both experience and awareness.  These thresholds provide opportunities for progression from the profane to the sacred, beginning with the exterior door, and ending at the veil.</p>
<p>The original concept for the Mesa and Alberta Temples beautifully combined this movement, space, and material selection with the symbolism of progression.  For Mesa, you moved along an axis towards the Celestial room, always returning to the axis and moving upwards until the goal was reached.  In Alberta, you circled the building, from quadrant to quadrant, always upward, until you reached the Celestial room in the center. As you progressed, the wood finishes in each room became darker and richer, interestingly the opposite of the white experienced in most Celestial rooms today.</p>
<p>Removing these thresholds lessens the experience of purposeful progression.  Fortunately, the move recently with smaller temples has been to add at least one of these actual thresholds of movement back into the ceremony.</p>
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		<title>By: Mormon Renaissance &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Doing my part - Creating Mormon Narrative: Deriving Literature from Scripture</title>
		<link>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/03/04/heidegger-and-mormonism-a-possible-literary-aesthetic/#comment-74</link>
		<dc:creator>Mormon Renaissance &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Doing my part - Creating Mormon Narrative: Deriving Literature from Scripture</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Mar 2008 06:13:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/03/04/heidegger-and-mormonism-a-possible-literary-aesthetic/#comment-74</guid>
		<description>[...] Trevor Banks: I wanted to add two more things: the term &#8216;experiential&#8217; can mean the cuing of the strings... [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Trevor Banks: I wanted to add two more things: the term &#8216;experiential&#8217; can mean the cuing of the strings&#8230; [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Trevor Banks</title>
		<link>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/03/04/heidegger-and-mormonism-a-possible-literary-aesthetic/#comment-72</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevor Banks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 21:05:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/03/04/heidegger-and-mormonism-a-possible-literary-aesthetic/#comment-72</guid>
		<description>I wanted to add two more things: the term 'experiential' can mean the cuing of the strings that we so often think of for Church institutional movies (and further down that genealogy, modern Hollywood).  But the term could also be used to describe art which challenges the audience to create their own experience.  Maya Deren described her avant-garde films as being ritual itself, but refused any use of music in the majority of her work.  I would describe Godard's latest films as experiential in their use of music (cutting in mid-phrase, often) because it requires you to create your own experience independent of the film.  Jonathan Rosenbaum has made the distinction that he prefers movies which 'acknowledge that movies are an integral part of life, not a replacement of life.'  This seems similar to the statement "the key to overcoming the barrier of human thought is not more human thought but human experience."  Perhaps a 'mormon' aesthetic should acknowledge that when we turn off the music we should go to work and actually experience our trials, not forget them.  The first version of the word "experiential seems to negate this in my mind.

Second:  Even with Gideon's observation that art by immersion may not work so well, I'd like to point out that the Spirit descended in the form of a dove only AFTER that immersion took place.  The immersion wasn't even in that instance the spiritual part.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wanted to add two more things: the term &#8216;experiential&#8217; can mean the cuing of the strings that we so often think of for Church institutional movies (and further down that genealogy, modern Hollywood).  But the term could also be used to describe art which challenges the audience to create their own experience.  Maya Deren described her avant-garde films as being ritual itself, but refused any use of music in the majority of her work.  I would describe Godard&#8217;s latest films as experiential in their use of music (cutting in mid-phrase, often) because it requires you to create your own experience independent of the film.  Jonathan Rosenbaum has made the distinction that he prefers movies which &#8216;acknowledge that movies are an integral part of life, not a replacement of life.&#8217;  This seems similar to the statement &#8220;the key to overcoming the barrier of human thought is not more human thought but human experience.&#8221;  Perhaps a &#8216;mormon&#8217; aesthetic should acknowledge that when we turn off the music we should go to work and actually experience our trials, not forget them.  The first version of the word &#8220;experiential seems to negate this in my mind.</p>
<p>Second:  Even with Gideon&#8217;s observation that art by immersion may not work so well, I&#8217;d like to point out that the Spirit descended in the form of a dove only AFTER that immersion took place.  The immersion wasn&#8217;t even in that instance the spiritual part.</p>
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		<title>By: Gideon Burton</title>
		<link>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/03/04/heidegger-and-mormonism-a-possible-literary-aesthetic/#comment-70</link>
		<dc:creator>Gideon Burton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 15:28:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/03/04/heidegger-and-mormonism-a-possible-literary-aesthetic/#comment-70</guid>
		<description>The affinity between Heidegger and Mormonism is worth noting--it can help account for our lack of formal theology and our focus on what I'd call spiritual phenomenology (the imminent experience of God). This could translate into a general affirmation of standard arguments for art over philosophy: art immerses us in sensuous and temporal  experience, while philosophy is an intellectual world of abstraction. (And by the way, we ought to acknowledge the significnat work being done with Mormon theology by the Society for Mormon Philosophy and Theology). But I think an aesthetic based on spiritual experience needs more thinking through. Formal religious rites (temple or other wise) do not always reflect or embody a Mormon's spiritual life. Believing Latter-day Saints will look for spiritual experiences within such practices (check D&#038;C 84:21 regarding the power of godliness being manifest in priesthood ordinances), but spiritual experience is much broader than rites, or meetings, or the formal bearing of testimonies, etc. I think the joy of art is in discovering and making manifest profound human experience, and I think that's what Liz is getting at when she talks about the power of writing. I disagree, however, that an LDS aesthetic can/should be based on generating spiritul experiences--or at least that needs enormous qualification. This has been the problem with the institutional church's cinematic aesthetic. For example, in such films it is often the case that rising violins cue a spiritual experience for those in the film and, purportedly, for those in the audience. As Liz notes, this sort of thing can be manipulative. The immersive qualities of art (paritcularly music and cinema) may be the most "experiential" but also the most problematic. Baptizing by immersion works well (I believe) for religious faith; for art, I'm not so sure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The affinity between Heidegger and Mormonism is worth noting&#8211;it can help account for our lack of formal theology and our focus on what I&#8217;d call spiritual phenomenology (the imminent experience of God). This could translate into a general affirmation of standard arguments for art over philosophy: art immerses us in sensuous and temporal  experience, while philosophy is an intellectual world of abstraction. (And by the way, we ought to acknowledge the significnat work being done with Mormon theology by the Society for Mormon Philosophy and Theology). But I think an aesthetic based on spiritual experience needs more thinking through. Formal religious rites (temple or other wise) do not always reflect or embody a Mormon&#8217;s spiritual life. Believing Latter-day Saints will look for spiritual experiences within such practices (check D&#038;C 84:21 regarding the power of godliness being manifest in priesthood ordinances), but spiritual experience is much broader than rites, or meetings, or the formal bearing of testimonies, etc. I think the joy of art is in discovering and making manifest profound human experience, and I think that&#8217;s what Liz is getting at when she talks about the power of writing. I disagree, however, that an LDS aesthetic can/should be based on generating spiritul experiences&#8211;or at least that needs enormous qualification. This has been the problem with the institutional church&#8217;s cinematic aesthetic. For example, in such films it is often the case that rising violins cue a spiritual experience for those in the film and, purportedly, for those in the audience. As Liz notes, this sort of thing can be manipulative. The immersive qualities of art (paritcularly music and cinema) may be the most &#8220;experiential&#8221; but also the most problematic. Baptizing by immersion works well (I believe) for religious faith; for art, I&#8217;m not so sure.</p>
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		<title>By: Doc</title>
		<link>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/03/04/heidegger-and-mormonism-a-possible-literary-aesthetic/#comment-68</link>
		<dc:creator>Doc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 02:05:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/03/04/heidegger-and-mormonism-a-possible-literary-aesthetic/#comment-68</guid>
		<description>To me, the Mormon Aesthetic seems to be one of possibility and discovery, which is one reason we do speculative fiction so well.  In a religion that collapses the distance between God and man as completely as we do, all things are possible.

  I would add a faith in progress, or eternal progression too, but I am not so sure this can be done consistently well.  After all, progress is a heresy in modern literature, obsessed with deconstruction and tearing down, rather than building because that is a "worn out" theme, as old as mankind.  I wonder if the literati culture really has room for a structure that we can succeed in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To me, the Mormon Aesthetic seems to be one of possibility and discovery, which is one reason we do speculative fiction so well.  In a religion that collapses the distance between God and man as completely as we do, all things are possible.</p>
<p>  I would add a faith in progress, or eternal progression too, but I am not so sure this can be done consistently well.  After all, progress is a heresy in modern literature, obsessed with deconstruction and tearing down, rather than building because that is a &#8220;worn out&#8221; theme, as old as mankind.  I wonder if the literati culture really has room for a structure that we can succeed in.</p>
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		<title>By: Trevor Banks</title>
		<link>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/03/04/heidegger-and-mormonism-a-possible-literary-aesthetic/#comment-67</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevor Banks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 00:39:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/03/04/heidegger-and-mormonism-a-possible-literary-aesthetic/#comment-67</guid>
		<description>I've left a longer response to this on my blog, but I did want to say that as far as Mormon art that has touched me in an experiential way, Low's music has done this.  To my knowledge of 'Mormon art" they are the greatest example of someone getting it right.  I know that Alan Sparhawk has battled with depression and that has definitely come out in their last albums, but "Secret Name," the album before they toured with Radiohead and received more acclaim (available on Kranky still) has more to say about the Temple than any other artistic endeavor I've yet encountered.  And formally, though it comes from a 'post-punk' background, I find it more reverent than any EFY music.
Yet it doesn't search for a Mormon audience, but only a temple-aware audience will understand certain discussions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve left a longer response to this on my blog, but I did want to say that as far as Mormon art that has touched me in an experiential way, Low&#8217;s music has done this.  To my knowledge of &#8216;Mormon art&#8221; they are the greatest example of someone getting it right.  I know that Alan Sparhawk has battled with depression and that has definitely come out in their last albums, but &#8220;Secret Name,&#8221; the album before they toured with Radiohead and received more acclaim (available on Kranky still) has more to say about the Temple than any other artistic endeavor I&#8217;ve yet encountered.  And formally, though it comes from a &#8216;post-punk&#8217; background, I find it more reverent than any EFY music.<br />
Yet it doesn&#8217;t search for a Mormon audience, but only a temple-aware audience will understand certain discussions.</p>
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