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	<title>Comments on: Expectation Games</title>
	<link>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/02/29/expectation-games/</link>
	<description>Critical Conversations to Redeem and Perfect Mormon Arts</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 12:35:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: david hulet on Ender&#8217;s Game &#171; Dis Organized</title>
		<link>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/02/29/expectation-games/#comment-88</link>
		<dc:creator>david hulet on Ender&#8217;s Game &#171; Dis Organized</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 05:11:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/02/29/expectation-games/#comment-88</guid>
		<description>[...] here&#8217;s his recent post on Ender&#8217;s Game. http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/02/29/expectation-games/ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] here&#8217;s his recent post on Ender&#8217;s Game. <a href="http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/02/29/expectation-games/" rel="nofollow">http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/02/29/expectation-games/</a> [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Mormon Renaissance &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Doing My Part - Creating Mormon Narrative: Deriving Literature from Scripture</title>
		<link>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/02/29/expectation-games/#comment-77</link>
		<dc:creator>Mormon Renaissance &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Doing My Part - Creating Mormon Narrative: Deriving Literature from Scripture</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Mar 2008 06:19:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/02/29/expectation-games/#comment-77</guid>
		<description>[...] last week with the attempts at defining a Mormon &#8220;genre&#8221; as well as my musings on expectation as a reader. I want to now address how this affects what I do as a writer, and why that matters to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] last week with the attempts at defining a Mormon &#8220;genre&#8221; as well as my musings on expectation as a reader. I want to now address how this affects what I do as a writer, and why that matters to [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: kelsy</title>
		<link>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/02/29/expectation-games/#comment-66</link>
		<dc:creator>kelsy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 18:34:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/02/29/expectation-games/#comment-66</guid>
		<description>Is life in general hopeful? It seems like most of the time life sucks. That's not to say I'm not religious or not hopeful--I am.  But what is the purpose of this life? To be happy now, or to grow up and progress? There's a lot of moral ambiguity in living life, which is why I loved reading Ender's Game and Speaker for the Dead. I can't remember the specifics of those books, but I like how we got to see the change in Ender. His experiences made him who he was. He grew up and we got to see it happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is life in general hopeful? It seems like most of the time life sucks. That&#8217;s not to say I&#8217;m not religious or not hopeful&#8211;I am.  But what is the purpose of this life? To be happy now, or to grow up and progress? There&#8217;s a lot of moral ambiguity in living life, which is why I loved reading Ender&#8217;s Game and Speaker for the Dead. I can&#8217;t remember the specifics of those books, but I like how we got to see the change in Ender. His experiences made him who he was. He grew up and we got to see it happen.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Greenwood</title>
		<link>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/02/29/expectation-games/#comment-50</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Greenwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 19:12:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/02/29/expectation-games/#comment-50</guid>
		<description>Speaker for the Dead, etc., become too redemptive in my opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaker for the Dead, etc., become too redemptive in my opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: Katherine Morris</title>
		<link>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/02/29/expectation-games/#comment-48</link>
		<dc:creator>Katherine Morris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 05:53:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/02/29/expectation-games/#comment-48</guid>
		<description>David, I appreciate your sharing the thoughts you wrote down right after you read Ender's Game. I wish I had done the same, because I honestly can't remember what my reaction was. I mostly remember that I was disturbed by it and didn't have much of a desire to read more of the series, perhaps because I too didn't know how to process the story. Although, as I recall, I was mostly disturbed because the book had such a depressing ending and not so much because I was considering what the larger implications were. This was probably because I was fairly young at the time that I read it.

I do, however, remember reading other books once I got to high school that I also had difficulty processing because they left me with more questions than answers, as you mentioned in your initial reaction to Ender's Game. My junior year of high school, we started out with Catcher in the Rye, then sailed directly into Native Son, Hamlet, and The Stranger, and then finished the year off with A Handmaid's Tale. Talk about losing optimism. I was so depressed by the books we read that year that I dropped the academic program I was in and determined that I couldn't be an English major in college, even though in many ways this would have been a logical choice.

There are a number of novels that don't seem to have the redemptive endings we're used to experiencing, especially as member of the Church. But maybe the endings that don't include the explicit hope and redemption are sometimes the ones that move us most. It's kind of a funny comparison, but I recently watched What about Thad?, which is a short film the Church produced in 1968 that was used to inspire Church members to work harder at reaching out to ward members in need. In the film, Thad is a little boy who has a difficult home life and has become troubled and isolated because of it. His primary leaders and his home teacher notice that Thad is struggling and remember moments where they could have reached out to him but just never carried through on their good intentions. They make plans to do better in the future, but at the end of the film, we don't find out what happens. We're left with this sad image of Thad walking by himself down an alleyway. Redemption seems possible, but we never find out if it actually happens. Interestingly enough, this film was a stronger call to action than were some of the others I've been viewing recently that have tidier endings, perhaps because it leaves the outcome up to the viewer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, I appreciate your sharing the thoughts you wrote down right after you read Ender&#8217;s Game. I wish I had done the same, because I honestly can&#8217;t remember what my reaction was. I mostly remember that I was disturbed by it and didn&#8217;t have much of a desire to read more of the series, perhaps because I too didn&#8217;t know how to process the story. Although, as I recall, I was mostly disturbed because the book had such a depressing ending and not so much because I was considering what the larger implications were. This was probably because I was fairly young at the time that I read it.</p>
<p>I do, however, remember reading other books once I got to high school that I also had difficulty processing because they left me with more questions than answers, as you mentioned in your initial reaction to Ender&#8217;s Game. My junior year of high school, we started out with Catcher in the Rye, then sailed directly into Native Son, Hamlet, and The Stranger, and then finished the year off with A Handmaid&#8217;s Tale. Talk about losing optimism. I was so depressed by the books we read that year that I dropped the academic program I was in and determined that I couldn&#8217;t be an English major in college, even though in many ways this would have been a logical choice.</p>
<p>There are a number of novels that don&#8217;t seem to have the redemptive endings we&#8217;re used to experiencing, especially as member of the Church. But maybe the endings that don&#8217;t include the explicit hope and redemption are sometimes the ones that move us most. It&#8217;s kind of a funny comparison, but I recently watched What about Thad?, which is a short film the Church produced in 1968 that was used to inspire Church members to work harder at reaching out to ward members in need. In the film, Thad is a little boy who has a difficult home life and has become troubled and isolated because of it. His primary leaders and his home teacher notice that Thad is struggling and remember moments where they could have reached out to him but just never carried through on their good intentions. They make plans to do better in the future, but at the end of the film, we don&#8217;t find out what happens. We&#8217;re left with this sad image of Thad walking by himself down an alleyway. Redemption seems possible, but we never find out if it actually happens. Interestingly enough, this film was a stronger call to action than were some of the others I&#8217;ve been viewing recently that have tidier endings, perhaps because it leaves the outcome up to the viewer.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Hilton</title>
		<link>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/02/29/expectation-games/#comment-44</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Hilton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Mar 2008 09:10:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/02/29/expectation-games/#comment-44</guid>
		<description>I went into my first reading of Ender's Game simply as a kid looking for a good sci fi read.  It was recommended by my cousin.  I read the introduction--Card's preface--and caught a glimpse of the fact that it wasn't likely to be a simple sci fi.  Reading it supported that, but mostly it was the general plot that struck me, and not the actual implications.  I didn't fully grasp what was going on for Ender until I read Speaker for the Dead on through Children of the Mind.  The series takes an abrupt turn at  Speaker and--I'll definitely agree with William--becomes incredibly redemptive.  Whether Card intended it or not, the sum of the series is that even while society is decaying, individuals of integrity can still live out meaningful lives--usually, though, tainted by society's influence.  I think that struggle is what draws me so much to the books.  Peter is probably my favorite character, and not only because I share his name.  Somehow, he takes all the vicious, Machiavellian qualities that he has and turns them toward the good of humanity.

So he says, anyway, and so says Ender.  Can we trust them as narrators?  We'd like to.  So I'll agree with the thrust of the original post.  Many of the implications are shocking, but maybe like a mosaic of the faces of the dead, while closer inspection shocks and appalls, the bigger picture reveals something absolutely incredible.  Just what that is . . . well, it's something that moves you, deeply, toward something beyond.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I went into my first reading of Ender&#8217;s Game simply as a kid looking for a good sci fi read.  It was recommended by my cousin.  I read the introduction&#8211;Card&#8217;s preface&#8211;and caught a glimpse of the fact that it wasn&#8217;t likely to be a simple sci fi.  Reading it supported that, but mostly it was the general plot that struck me, and not the actual implications.  I didn&#8217;t fully grasp what was going on for Ender until I read Speaker for the Dead on through Children of the Mind.  The series takes an abrupt turn at  Speaker and&#8211;I&#8217;ll definitely agree with William&#8211;becomes incredibly redemptive.  Whether Card intended it or not, the sum of the series is that even while society is decaying, individuals of integrity can still live out meaningful lives&#8211;usually, though, tainted by society&#8217;s influence.  I think that struggle is what draws me so much to the books.  Peter is probably my favorite character, and not only because I share his name.  Somehow, he takes all the vicious, Machiavellian qualities that he has and turns them toward the good of humanity.</p>
<p>So he says, anyway, and so says Ender.  Can we trust them as narrators?  We&#8217;d like to.  So I&#8217;ll agree with the thrust of the original post.  Many of the implications are shocking, but maybe like a mosaic of the faces of the dead, while closer inspection shocks and appalls, the bigger picture reveals something absolutely incredible.  Just what that is . . . well, it&#8217;s something that moves you, deeply, toward something beyond.</p>
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		<title>By: William Morris</title>
		<link>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/02/29/expectation-games/#comment-41</link>
		<dc:creator>William Morris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Mar 2008 04:32:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/02/29/expectation-games/#comment-41</guid>
		<description>I think Speaker for the Dead is a highly redemptive book. Exactly why is inherent in the title.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Speaker for the Dead is a highly redemptive book. Exactly why is inherent in the title.</p>
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		<title>By: Doc</title>
		<link>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/02/29/expectation-games/#comment-40</link>
		<dc:creator>Doc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Mar 2008 03:51:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/02/29/expectation-games/#comment-40</guid>
		<description>I thought they were both wonderful.  Ender's game was a tragedy and scathing commentary on our society, but for me speaker for the dead more than made up for it.   The incident with the piggies and what we need to do to learn to understand others, to forgive others, and live in peace was very powerful.  Though ripe with tragedy, Ender brought resolution to the conflict, with insight born of his experience.  I found the book a powerful affirmation of the power of "knowing", understanding them rather than casting them off as verelse and condemning ourselves to conflict and destruction.  In that sense I thought it was hopeful, in a three dimensional way born of reality and refusal to examine our flaws and weakness.  
    In an odd way, seeing as how it was fiction, I found it an insightful commentary into what the fall and mortality really mean, the pain of spiritual growth, of knowing the good and the evil.  Hopeless optimist that I am, I found it very life affirming. 

     The way Ender was used in the first book was revolting, the way he taught and led, inspiring.  The way he was stretched between his dark side and good side to become a leader was painful, three dimensional, and real. 
     My expectations were high, but in a way that I expected it to be much different than previous Mormon fare, as EG was award winning and critically acclaimed, and moved beyond the realm of anything a Mormon had written before.   It met those expectations for me.   

     I think you might like his shadow series.  It does go on to show Ender's influence planted seeds that help produce a united Earth way down the road, ironically under his brother, Peter the Hegemon, who matures and grows up and gains dimension.  He turns out okay, in a believable way, a miraculous achievement for the kind of sociopathic demon he started out as.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought they were both wonderful.  Ender&#8217;s game was a tragedy and scathing commentary on our society, but for me speaker for the dead more than made up for it.   The incident with the piggies and what we need to do to learn to understand others, to forgive others, and live in peace was very powerful.  Though ripe with tragedy, Ender brought resolution to the conflict, with insight born of his experience.  I found the book a powerful affirmation of the power of &#8220;knowing&#8221;, understanding them rather than casting them off as verelse and condemning ourselves to conflict and destruction.  In that sense I thought it was hopeful, in a three dimensional way born of reality and refusal to examine our flaws and weakness.<br />
    In an odd way, seeing as how it was fiction, I found it an insightful commentary into what the fall and mortality really mean, the pain of spiritual growth, of knowing the good and the evil.  Hopeless optimist that I am, I found it very life affirming. </p>
<p>     The way Ender was used in the first book was revolting, the way he taught and led, inspiring.  The way he was stretched between his dark side and good side to become a leader was painful, three dimensional, and real.<br />
     My expectations were high, but in a way that I expected it to be much different than previous Mormon fare, as EG was award winning and critically acclaimed, and moved beyond the realm of anything a Mormon had written before.   It met those expectations for me.   </p>
<p>     I think you might like his shadow series.  It does go on to show Ender&#8217;s influence planted seeds that help produce a united Earth way down the road, ironically under his brother, Peter the Hegemon, who matures and grows up and gains dimension.  He turns out okay, in a believable way, a miraculous achievement for the kind of sociopathic demon he started out as.</p>
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		<title>By: Brown</title>
		<link>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/02/29/expectation-games/#comment-39</link>
		<dc:creator>Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Mar 2008 03:51:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://mormonrenaissance.org/2008/02/29/expectation-games/#comment-39</guid>
		<description>John Kessel's "Creating the Innocent Killer" is one of the most thorough and in-depth analyses of Ender's Game I've ever read. He begins by quoting OSC as saying "There's always moral instruction whether the writer inserts it deliberately or not..." and goes on to look at why exactly Ender's Game is so popular and how exactly OSC sets up the story to create these feelings in us. Excellent read:  http://www4.ncsu.edu/~tenshi/Killer_000.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John Kessel&#8217;s &#8220;Creating the Innocent Killer&#8221; is one of the most thorough and in-depth analyses of Ender&#8217;s Game I&#8217;ve ever read. He begins by quoting OSC as saying &#8220;There&#8217;s always moral instruction whether the writer inserts it deliberately or not&#8230;&#8221; and goes on to look at why exactly Ender&#8217;s Game is so popular and how exactly OSC sets up the story to create these feelings in us. Excellent read:  <a href="http://www4.ncsu.edu/~tenshi/Killer_000.htm" rel="nofollow" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview ('/outbound/www4.ncsu.edu');">http://www4.ncsu.edu/~tenshi/Killer_000.htm</a></p>
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